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#6667459 Sep 04, 2012 at 08:39 AM
65 Posts
Was a really good time last night. I hope we can something like that pretty often, even if on a smaller scale. Some quick thoughts on spvp:

- it seems like the meta game has definitely moved to conditions/survive type builds. Good players can avoid burst damage specs too easily for them to be effective at the higher ranks (think 100 blades warriors and heartseeker thieves). Dodge roll/root/snare/etc and they lose.

- raid on the Capricorn sucks. Too much forced pve IMO. Sharks are too strong. Forest of Nifhel has significant pve, but it isn't forced. I feel like its very strategic in nifhel. If you steal the opposing npc it's a 50 point swing. Pretty clutch. But to do so you chance losing keep, getting killed/finished, etc.

- in a tourney build it looks like having a point defender specced to do so is nice. My necro build was so survivable that a team has to divert multiple people to my point in order to take it before I get reinforced. Again, the meta looks to be condition/survival.


- take supply camps! If you have had the pleasure of smashing your face against a keep/tower door for 20 minutes as the defenders continually repair it you'll know what I mean. No supply in the enemy base = no repairs or supply to build defensive siege equipment.

- remember to check your map. The Zerg isn't always in the right place at the right time. A group of 5-6 people splitting off is often enough to move the herd.

- the meta game for WvWvW so far has been aoe, Rez Rez Rez, finish finish finish. Can't stress enough how crucial finishing opponents and rezzing friendlies is. It isn't like spvp where you are back in the fight in 15 seconds. It may take 2 minutes or more to run back to where the fight is. That can be devastating if you lose a few people.

- never ever ever ever leave a base without taking supply with you! Supply will build rams, siege equipment and repair doors. Nothing worse than watching the frame for a ram get destroyed because nobody had supply with them.

- have a travel spec ready to go in WvWvW. Most classes have some sort of movement speed buff from items or skills. Keep them ready in your inventory and switch them out before the fight. 10% movement speed can make a big difference getting back to a tense fight.

- don't be afraid to buy siege equipment. It's awesome to see how powerful some siege gear can be. There is truly a psychological aspect to it. Watching 5 people get blown 10 yards apart by a flaming boulder or seeing your group decimated by a flying cow makes you think twice about pushing that door/standing on that wall. Very very cool stuff.

That's about it for now. Feel free to add thoughts
#6711360 Sep 13, 2012 at 05:04 PM · Edited 9 years ago
62 Posts
My impression after 4 days of spvp:
This is the most balanced pvp during a new release that I've ever played.

a couple notes that I've made in the past few days.
you need it. This does not mean stacking it and nothing else. In fact, more often than not, stacking toughness at the expense of other skills gimp you; however, taking toughness into consideration for high dps builds is a must for spvp. If you're finding yourself too squishy, try dumping some points into toughness and you might find that your exact same build is magically 10x better.

-heartseeker (HS) and hundred blades (HB)
GW2 pvp forums are now up and the majority of SPVP qq is either HS or HB. These types of skills exist in almost every MMO pvp environment - it was pretty obvious that these two abilities would be called OP very quickly because they usually are. Low skill cap combo + spammability + above average damage = newbie forum rage. Usually, these types of skills deserve hard nerfing. The difference here is this: GW2 gives you the tools to counter them regardless of your class.
Could these abilities use a bit of tweaking in future patches? yeah probably
If 5 people ran these builds will they win every tournament game? Only against pugs and people who also build equally gimmicky. Even then, I would give it a 60:40 win rate. This is the equivalent of a zergling rush in starcraft.
The videos I posted in the other thread can help you if you're having trouble.

The single most pivotal part of a team fight is how you react when people start dying. The way this mechanic is designed is brilliant. PEOPLE WILL DIE. This is not like WoW or WAR where team fights have AOE heals that keep everyone topped off. Suppose a 3v3 team fight happens anywhere. 15 seconds into the fight, both Team A and B have 1 person downed, turning it into a 2v2. Both guys on Team A choose to stop fighting and heal the downed guy. Team B chooses to attack/finish. Team A will always win in this straight forward scenario (no CCs on either team). The amount of healing from 2 players on a single downed player (with no additional damage being done to him) is insane, it's faster than the execute animation. This is the only PvP I've experienced where out-killing someone's team is not the same as out-playing someone's team in a team fight.

There's a lot more that's swimming around my head but I'm still processing it.
In terms of specific SPVP maps, I've noticed some trends that will help our strategies in tournaments but I still want more practice.

A few team builds that I think would be fun to experiment with:
Might stacking
Melee dps trains - bull rush obj points or rush Lord
Ranged dps trains - mostly only effective in 5 man. Basically force the enemy to either be kited off obj points or be killed at range
Full tank team - bully people off objective points

Thats just for fun though, as I said before, I really believe that the best teams are the ones that can deal with every situation. Balance is down to the individual in this game, there's no such thing as having 2 tanks, 2 dps, 1 support. Every single member of the team must be self sufficient. The best melee DPS warrior trains I've seen in this game are the ones who also have a fair bit of condition dumps, cc breakers, and buffs.
#6736581 Sep 19, 2012 at 04:48 AM
64 Posts
I agree with what you're saying on the rezzing, Kevin. Which IS true. Most people neglect rezzing. There are all kinds of methods to secure executions/rezzes in SPVP, ranging from things like

Thief: Shadow Refuge, Any form of stealth, Haste
Engineers: Elixir S
Warriors: Dolyak Signet, Balance Stance, Frenzy
-You'd be surprised how effective this is, Especially Shadow Refuge. Throw it on a downed ally, it gives a small heal and allows you to move in for a rez with them being out of sight, It also keeps them from being Executed. For players who do get Shadow Refuged, DONT SPAM 1 You may not realize it, But sometimes spamming 1 can be counter productive. Time your 2(Whatever they are) and hope for 3(Whatever they are) and hope to god to catch a rez.
-Stability: If you're looking to secure an Execution, this will keep you from catching ANY form of CC. Now, it wont necessarily help with an execution on someone like a Mesmer or Thief, Thats more a time thing. Just let them bounce around and do their stealth thing. The Mesmer's 2 is just as counter productive to them as it is productive, A fair bit of the time allies will attempt to rez their clone. Thiefs will bounce around a bit too, Main thing is to just keep them from getting rezzed if possible.
-Frenzy/Haste: These skills dont increase cast speed, persay. But they do, if that makes sense. You'll execute someone twice as fast with these up, And yes. I know they have draw backs. But whatever. If it's a 3v3 and you instantly execute one of their allies, Whether you are taking a bit more damage or not, it's still a 3v2 now.
Elixir S(and other invulns): I havn't really messed with other classes invulnerability skills, But I've found from personal experience that starting an execution and popping elixir S 25% in, will keep you from breaking concentration via CC of any kind. I've used this many times just running into the fray to secure an execute.

Basicly, I'm trying to stress something Kevin's already stated. It's important to get your allies up as well as securing those executes. You may lose a lil HP doing the rez or execute. But in the end. You just shifted the numbers a bit more in your favor.
We fight to know we're alive, We bleed to know we're dying...It's all a matter of knowing how much blood you can lose
#6739246 Sep 19, 2012 at 04:11 PM · Edited 9 years ago
62 Posts
couple things I'll be working on this week:

-practice keeping people in the down state. That means if they're healing themselves up, I damage them back to ~50% and if they're being rezzed by a teammate then I delay the rez as much as possible. As a guardian I have multiple ways of knocking a downed person off a contested point so it doesn't interfere with capping. That might be different for other classes and finishing someone might be the only way for you to cap a point. I have three abilities in my build that let me bubble an area on top of a downed player that keeps their team mates from entering to rez. For people who don't have knockback abilities I recommend trying your best to down people off of the point so that their down state doesn't interfere with capping. The exceptions here are mesmers and thieves who have the annoying ability to randomly teleport into the middle of the point and elementalists who can mist travel back onto the point. There have been times where I have to hold a point 1v1 or 2v1 and I manage to down the attackers and keep them downed for an extended time. By keeping these guys downed and not finishing them I not only keep my point capped but I effectively change the match into a 5v4 or 5v3 for about 2 or 3 minutes (taking into account their rez timer and the time it takes for them to run back to the battle). Obviously warriors are an exception to this because they can "kill themselves" by hitting their "3" ability when it comes off cooldown.

-be more conscious of finishing (when necessary) people off at the beginning of the respawn timer. Respawn in this game works on a set universal 20 sec rotation, that means if the timer is down to 5 seconds and you get finished, you res in 5 seconds, but if you get finished when the timer is at 19 sec, then you have to wait 19 sec to get respawned.

All of these things I've experienced doing tournaments with or against high level teams (top competitive guilds are already actively doing this). These tactics obviously decrease the overall glory you can get at the end of the match because there's less killing but it's pretty piecemeal compared to the 400 glory you get for winning the tournament.
#6739333 Sep 19, 2012 at 04:30 PM
64 Posts
Yeah I'm going to have on that myself. When I get those random 2v1's or 1v1's where I have them downed. I'm gonna work on, at the very least, holding their execution till respawn
We fight to know we're alive, We bleed to know we're dying...It's all a matter of knowing how much blood you can lose
#6739433 Sep 19, 2012 at 04:51 PM
Guild Master
624 Posts
Is the rez timer somewhere on the UI? How can I track it?
"The man who never alters his opinion is like standing water, and breeds reptiles of the mind."

-William Blake
#6739465 Sep 19, 2012 at 04:58 PM · Edited 9 years ago
62 Posts
I believe you can refer to the countdown game timer up top at :00, :20, and :40.
EDIT: apparently it isn't...I'll update if I figure this out.

Oh and I need to rethink the way I fight necros completely...I found out that Corrupt Boon is what they were using to plow me...fml.
It counters my Contemplation of Purity completely so I'm stuck either eating his cons and not purging them or purging them and eating a Corrupt Boon. Even worse: CB is on a 40s cooldown, CoP is 60s.
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